[ayanna]

Cousine tu sais pas ce ke je fait ds la vie n'est ce pas???

[/quote]

Cousin, non je sais pas du tout !!

djib c est pas la premiere fois que tu nous la joues... mystere ....mystere..
djib tu fais quoi ?dis moi svp !!!!
c est qqch de special ?!!
pourquoi autant de cachotteries !!!!!!

par ailleurs "qu’est-ce qu’être fidèle au message de l’islam à l’époque contemporaine ?

"Pour les musulmans, l’islam est un message d’égalité et de justice. C’est par fidélité à ce message que nous ressentons l’impossibilité de rester silencieux

des femmes et des hommes sont châtiés, frappés, lapidés et exécutés au nom de l’application des hudûd e application aussi injuste de nos références religieuses.

Or, comble d’une injustice aggravée, ces peines ne s’appliquent qu’aux femmes et aux pauvres, doublement victimes, jamais aux riches, aux gouvernants ou aux oppresseurs. En sus, des centaines de prisonniers n’ont droit à aucune défense digne de ce nom : des sentences de mort sont décidées et exécutées à l’encontre de femmes, d’hommes, voire de mineurs (opposants politiques, trafiquants, délinquants, etc.) sans que les accusés n’aient pu avoir le moindre contact avec un avocat"

EXTRAITS RAMADAN TARIQ oumma.com

je suis une ignare mais ca je le savais ...COMME TOI ...
la derniere fois tu m as renvoye dans mes filets en pretextant qu il n y a pas de debat possible!!
pourquoi cet erudit decide apres mure reflexion d entamer un debat ?

DIS POURQUOI ...

salutations ....djibextremiste

[Desaxee]

merci ayanna
je ne savais pas que Oumma etait le site de tariq ramadan et ke celui-ci etait oppose aux chatiments corporels . je vais aller faire un tour donc.


A djib-extremist

which laws are man-made and which ones are divine:
why is "stoning a woman to death" not in the Qur'an? while nearly all muslims think it's divine (you too I presume)!!

you agree with me that Sharia is man-made laws maha ? laws are made to be applied equally in a society otherwise it's not worth it and it's a source of unjuctice. Think about it : why the death penalty cannot be applied in a society.
Saying "it's from allah so we have to do" it without thinking carefully about the consequences and effects in an economically imbalanced society is purely cruel and stupid.



c'est ton choix de compter sur les opinions de certains sheikhs au sujet de comment tu dois vivre ta vie. You must know that you are not a child anymore djib-extremist , you are a full grown man ( I hope so), you don't need guidance if you want to know more about your religion, READ (Iqra)! READ articles and books.
Don't limit yourself to one interpretation of qura'n, seek other interpretations, listen to everyone one (modernists, conservatives, chiites).
Try to understand why this sheihk has said that !!! and don't forget that Islam is about seeking knowledge, tolerance and love.




I know that every muslim wants to be a good muslim and will do everything to fulfill his wish specially people who doesn't try to look beyond their world to try to grasp islamic world and its evolutions.

Au risque de te decevoir I believe in God (in allah) and I am a muslim.If you try (one day) to know what's islam (history of Islam, Islam world from Indonesia to Senegal, ISlamic laws) you will discover that everything is not as clear as you have thought, that there is loads of interpretations of Qur'an and that no muslim country has the same laws as another muslim country.That all the time islam is used for political or social agendas (Iran, Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan).
You will know that lot of things that have nothng to do with Islam and more with local tradition exist and sometimes pass as "muslim" in the majority of muslim contries without encoutering a strong opposition from islamic scholars WHO DO KNOW THE TRUTH : ( female mutilation in Africa, Honor Killings in Middle east : Jourdain, Pakistan, Afghanistan).
Those barbaric practices haven't disappeared from our world and haven't been condemned and outlawed by sheikhs/imams.
Islam alsways serves an agenda because in most countries there is no separation between Politics and religion. That's why most muslim countries are corrupted and under dictatorships because muslims scholars are participating actively in this decadent civilisation.
They are most of them accomplices of those tyranic regime and their purpose is to keep poor uneducated muslims in ther dark by preaching against progress, democracy and modernism.
Modernism will mean their downfall that's why they are so afraid of the west (their biggest enemy) nowadays.
lIKE AMERICANS who live in the fear of terrorism , muslims live in the fear of modernism, you think that ISlam need dismembering bodies and beheaded people, without that "true essence of islam " would be lost ? Like americans who think US attack on Iraq have made the world a better place, you live in a constant fear that one day Islam would disappear.

[djib_extremiste]

I will try to answer without getting personal

Citation

you agree with me that Sharia is man-made laws maha ? laws are made to be applied equally in a society otherwise it's not worth it and it's a source of unjuctice. Think about it : why the death penalty cannot be applied in a society.
Saying "it's from allah so we have to do" it without thinking carefully about the consequences and effects in an economically imbalanced society is purely cruel and stupid.

I understand that some Islamic countries are applying the Shariah rules in a very misleading way... I am not supporting that...thats for sure...
I believe that its the duty of the judge to know about the environment (society,culture, economy and whatnot) and i believe it should be a very careful and relevent judgement to make...not
I was told that the Saudi gvt have cut the heads of seven somalis guyz for nothin... i dont think that the rules of Shariah should be carried that way...

Citation

c'est ton choix de compter sur les opinions de certains sheikhs au sujet de comment tu dois vivre ta vie. You must know that you are not a child anymore djib-extremist , you are a full grown man ( I hope so), you don't need guidance if you want to know more about your religion, READ (Iqra)! READ articles and books.
Don't limit yourself to one interpretation of qura'n, seek other interpretations, listen to everyone one (modernists, conservatives, chiites).
Try to understand why this sheihk has said that !!! and don't forget that Islam is about seeking knowledge, tolerance and love.

I believe that the Shariah is a very clever thing, one thing that we agree on is that its the people that interpreting and applying in a very wrong and stupid way...
So that order and harmony should be respected some rules should be followed, what could be better that the Shariah itself is implimented...You could argue that the people are not ready for that and u got a point... but in an Ideal Sociey it could work.... u gotta believe in it....
Let there be no doubt that i did my homework... ive read my share of articles.. and i dont seek guidence in them...i just believe that it should be applied in a Macro-level... thats it..
I know and i ve said it and i believe that Islam is about luv, tolerence and all dat...

Citation

Au risque de te decevoir I believe in God (in allah) and I am a muslim.If you try (one day) to know what's islam (history of Islam, Islam world from Indonesia to Senegal, ISlamic laws) you will discover that everything is not as clear as you have thought, that there is loads of interpretations of Qur'an and that no muslim country has the same laws as another muslim country.That all the time islam is used for political or social agendas (Iran, Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan).

U ve been trapped by the current events of the world.. I told you there is nothin Islamic about the actions of those countries...Islam is everythin beautifull u talked about it and much more....

In short, we are talkin about da same thing...the only difference we have lies in the fact that I want a "clean" Shariah to be applied and followed carefully... and i want that there should be some responsible and knowlegeable people should be appointed to execute it.... thats it...
Islam and Shariah are not about killing people.... it embraces a lotta part of ur life like banking, management, social conduct... and much more...
I believe that if the rules are made by God... it means that He knows it can be applied...
Dont get caught up by the Western Myth...Even Americans believe da same way i do... thats why they voted for the conservative candidate like Bush... and not the Liberal Kerry....coz Bush is against Abortion, gay marriage, He is for ethical principles and all that....they want to conserve the little decency in their life...thats why Capital Death is still applied in some of the states....

Think about... u want to liberalize everythin.. you will regret when u end up havin a fagggot* son...

Ce message a été modifié par djib_extremiste - 08 avril 2005 - 08:14 .

[Maskali]

djib_extremiste, le Friday 8 April 2005, 18:07, dit :

I will try to answer without getting personal

Citation

you agree with me that Sharia is man-made laws maha ? laws are made to be applied equally in a society otherwise it's not worth it and it's a source of unjuctice. Think about it : why the death penalty cannot be applied in a society.
Saying "it's from allah so we have to do" it without thinking carefully about the consequences and effects in an economically imbalanced society is purely cruel and stupid.

I understand that some Islamic countries are applying the Shariah rules in a very misleading way... I am not supporting that...thats for sure...
I believe that its the duty of the judge to know about the environment (society,culture, economy and whatnot) and i believe it should be a very careful and relevent judgement to make...not
I was told that the Saudi gvt have cut the heads of seven somalis guyz for nothin... i dont think that the rules of Shariah should be carried that way...

Citation

c'est ton choix de compter sur les opinions de certains sheikhs au sujet de comment tu dois vivre ta vie. You must know that you are not a child anymore djib-extremist , you are a full grown man ( I hope so), you don't need guidance if you want to know more about your religion, READ (Iqra)! READ articles and books.
Don't limit yourself to one interpretation of qura'n, seek other interpretations, listen to everyone one (modernists, conservatives, chiites).
Try to understand why this sheihk has said that !!! and don't forget that Islam is about seeking knowledge, tolerance and love.

I believe that the Shariah is a very clever thing, one thing that we agree on is that its the people that interpreting and applying in a very wrong and stupid way...
So that order and harmony should be respected some rules should be followed, what could be better that the Shariah itself is implimented...You could argue that the people are not ready for that and u got a point... but in an Ideal Sociey it could work.... u gotta believe in it....
Let there be no doubt that i did my homework... ive read my share of articles.. and i dont seek guidence in them...i just believe that it should be applied in a Macro-level... thats it..
I know and i ve said it and i believe that Islam is about luv, tolerence and all dat...

Citation

Au risque de te decevoir I believe in God (in allah) and I am a muslim.If you try (one day) to know what's islam (history of Islam, Islam world from Indonesia to Senegal, ISlamic laws) you will discover that everything is not as clear as you have thought, that there is loads of interpretations of Qur'an and that no muslim country has the same laws as another muslim country.That all the time islam is used for political or social agendas (Iran, Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan).

U ve been trapped by the current events of the world.. I told you there is nothin Islamic about the actions of those countries...Islam is everythin beautifull u talked about it and much more....

In short, we are talkin about da same thing...the only difference we have lies in the fact that I want a "clean" Shariah to be applied and followed carefully... and i want that there should be some responsible and knowlegeable people should be appointed to execute it.... thats it...
Islam and Shariah are not about killing people.... it embraces a lotta part of ur life like banking, management, social conduct... and much more...
I believe that if the rules are made by God... it means that He knows it can be applied...
Dont get caught up by the Western Myth...Even Americans believe da same way i do... thats why they voted for the conservative candidate like Bush... and not the Liberal Kerry....coz Bush is against Abortion, gay marriage, He is for ethical principles and all that....they want to conserve the little decency in their life...thats why Capital Death is still applied in some of the states....

Think about... u want to liberalize everythin.. you will regret when u end up havin a fagggot* son...

Bravo les amis,

Interessant debat. Je voudrais simplement dire aux Chretiens qui trouve le ROMAN Da Vinci Code blasphematoire de se rappeler de notre reaction quand Salman Rushdie a publie les versets sataniques. Devant notre tollé, ils ont repondu que Salman pouvait ecrire ce qu'il voulait a partir du moment que c'etait une "oeuvre de fiction". Da Vinci Code est une oeuvre de fiction. Donc notre ce cas l'auteur peut ecrire ce qu'il veut. Ce n'est pas nous qui allons demander une fatwa contre l'ecrivain americain. Je recommande a tous ce livre qui un thriller qui se lit tres bien.

Que le debat continu ! Vive le Djibouti democratique virtuelle !

Amicalement Maskali.

[Desaxee]

Djibextremist , walaal show me one muslim country that apply sharia correctly, the majority of muslim countries have abandonn sharia laws or modify them in order to be more fair to people, most of them kept good laws (banking, inheritance, divorce) but got rid of those related to corporal punishements or extreme ones.

Citation

Think about... u want to liberalize everythin.. you will regret when u end up havin a fagggot* son...

let's be honnest about it : homosexuality has nothing to do with liberalism.
It has always existed since the dawn of humanity (well before "luud clan"). it has existed well before humans applied notions of democracy, freedom, liberalism and modernism.
It exists in every society, muslim ot not : Saudia arabia , Egypt (that has decided to kill some of them recently); the only difference is that in the West they are not afraid to be "on the spot" , actually they are proctected by laws against prejudice and hatred from us (straight people).
That's the only difference : westerners did not invent homosexuality. wixii xuun ba ma hawaa le ?

My son is as likely to become gay as yours wehther I am conservative or liberal.

[djib_extremiste]

Citation

let's be honnest about it : homosexuality has nothing to do with liberalism.
It has always existed since the dawn of humanity (well before "luud clan"). it has existed well before humans applied notions of democracy, freedom, liberalism and modernism.
It exists in every society, muslim ot not : Saudia arabia , Egypt (that has decided to kill some of them recently); the only difference is that in the West they are not afraid to be "on the spot" , actually they are proctected by laws against prejudice and hatred from us (straight people).
That's the only difference : westerners did not invent homosexuality. wixii xuun ba ma hawaa le ? 

My son is as likely to become gay as yours wehther I am conservative or liberal.

I just used that as an example...what i meant is dat...today u are advocating for no Capital Death...and no Hijab...or whatever.... Tomorrow... its gona be Gay rights.... or somethin worst... we gona end up like one of these fuucked-up society...no morals at all...
I want to live in clean and peacefull environment...and i believe da Shariah will provide it...if implimented precisely...and smartly....
Trust me...if u has a gay son in djib...he wouldnt survive...they gona whuuup his arss...because...thank God... the Shariah laws at djib are implied... they are part on Social and cultural norms....and they are relatively well-respected....
HOWEVER in these western countries... It would be a heaven for him.... you will start to beat him up...He will call 911...You want no Child-physical beating... thats what u get...a sexually confused son....

Ayanna...
wanna know more about me... i dont think my life its interesting.... but iam sure.... yours is.... why dont u tell me... what u do in ur life....

Djib...l'extremiste

[domi]

djib_extremiste, le Saturday 9 April 2005, 15:33, dit :

Citation

let's be honnest about it : homosexuality has nothing to do with liberalism.
It has always existed since the dawn of humanity (well before "luud clan"). it has existed well before humans applied notions of democracy, freedom, liberalism and modernism.
It exists in every society, muslim ot not : Saudia arabia , Egypt (that has decided to kill some of them recently); the only difference is that in the West they are not afraid to be "on the spot" , actually they are proctected by laws against prejudice and hatred from us (straight people).
That's the only difference : westerners did not invent homosexuality. wixii xuun ba ma hawaa le ? 

My son is as likely to become gay as yours wehther I am conservative or liberal.

I just used that as an example...what i meant is dat...today u are advocating for no Capital Death...and no Hijab...or whatever.... Tomorrow... its gona be Gay rights.... or somethin worst... we gona end up like one of these fuucked-up society...no morals at all...
I want to live in clean and peacefull environment...and i believe da Shariah will provide it...if implimented precisely...and smartly....
Trust me...if u has a gay son in djib...he wouldnt survive...they gona whuuup his arss...because...thank God... the Shariah laws at djib are implied... they are part on Social and cultural norms....and they are relatively well-respected....
HOWEVER in these western countries... It would be a heaven for him.... you will start to beat him up...He will call 911...You want no Child-physical beating... thats what u get...a sexually confused son....

Ayanna...
wanna know more about me... i dont think my life its interesting.... but iam sure.... yours is.... why dont u tell me... what u do in ur life....

Djib...l'extremiste

Djib...l'extremiste es tu assez naif pour croire que les homosexuels n'existent pas ds le monde musulman?

[ayanna]

domi c est pas trop la question y en a mais ils sont caches et c est plutot bien comme ca !!!!
(par ailleurs y en a surement pas en somalie vu que la bas tout se sait )

djibextremist .. i joke !

par ailleurs je suis d accord avec toi djib loooooooooool!!!!!!
en occident c est devenu trop voyant et ca a une mauvaise influence sur les enfants .......
ca va devenir too much et il faut etre vraiment proche de ses enfants car tout l environnement peut les contaminer (tele,internet...)

en plus j ai entendu dire que la majorite des homos filles et garcons le sont par defaut looooooooool !!
les grosses "camionneuses" aucun garcon n en veut !!!
et y a des mecs qui sont tellement timides ou qui ne sont pas gates par la nature qu ils n arrivent pas a aborder des filles donc mentalement ils integrent idee
qu ils sont gays !!!!!! c est TRISTE en fin de compte .....

dans societes musulmanes a peu pres tout les garcons arrivent a se caser un moment ou a un autre
car la famille les aide s ils ont du mal

par ailleurs djib extremist
n oublie pas que la fille de dick cheney est lesbienne looool.....donc meme bush doit faire des compromis !!!!!

par ailleurs lisez cette histoire qui est vraiment TRISTE :

"The coming out of his own daughter has not softened former
Ambassador Alan Keyes' position on gays and same-sex marriage.

The conservative broadcaster and failed senate candidate delivered a scathing attack gay marriage at a Christian rally in St Augustine, Florida.

"Marriage exists in order to respect, recognize and enforce obligations that arise from the fact of procreation," Keyes said in his keynote address at ProFamily Rally 2005.

He then declared that heterosexual couples who choose not to have children do not hurt the institution, but a gay union would annihilate it.

Keyes said that homosexuality is "selfish hedonism."
Signorile then asked Keyes, the GOP candidate for the US Senate in Illinois, whether he considered Mary Cheney, the daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney, a "selfish hedonist."

"Of course she is," Keyes replied. "That goes by definition. Of course she is."

Following Tuesday's speech in St Augustine Keyes refused to discuss his relationship with his own daughter.

Keyes' daughter came out last month at a Valentines Day demonstration in support of gay marriage in Maryland. (story)

It was Maya Marcel-Keyes first public appearance as a gay activist. Marcel-Keyes said her parents have thrown her out of the house, stopped speaking to her and refuse to pay for college because she is a lesbian."


C est malheureux de voir que la fille a le culot de passer a la tele pour humilier son pere et sa mere !!!!!!!

[domi]

ayanna, le Saturday 9 April 2005, 17:27, dit :

en plus j ai entendu dire que la majorite des homos filles et garcons le sont par defaut looooooooool !!
les grosses "camionneuses"  aucun garcon n en veut !!!
et y a des mecs qui sont tellement timides ou qui ne sont pas gates par la nature qu ils n arrivent pas a aborder des filles donc mentalement ils integrent idee
qu ils sont gays !!!!!! c est TRISTE en fin de compte .....

et bien ce que tu as entendu dire est faux!

[CASSANDRA]

Citation

en plus j ai entendu dire que la majorite des homos filles et garcons le sont par defaut looooooooool !!

ayanna, c'est pas facile de penser comme tu le penses..tu justifies tous les homos de la terre...Je ne suis pas sur qu'ils le sont par defauts ...si tu en a toutoyer tu comprendras qu'il y a des belles jeunes filles qui sont lesb'!

[ayanna]

et bien ce que tu as entendu dire est faux!

[/quote]

walaloo domi 2 mon cheri ,my love , mon ame soeur ...
WHAT S U PROBLEM ? DAMN!!!!

t as decide de jouer au jacadi a dit :De contredire ayanna tout le temps ????

C EST SAOULANT a force ....
tout d abord" J AI ENTENDU DIRE" donc j ai pas dit que je le pensais
nom de dieu .....

et T ES QUI TOI?!
t as "la verite infuse" t es meme dans la tete d homo !!
t en un peut etre !!!!! t en mieux pour toi !!!! oufffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[domi]

ayanna, le Saturday 9 April 2005, 17:27, dit :

It was Maya Marcel-Keyes first public appearance as a gay activist. Marcel-Keyes said her parents have thrown her out of the house, stopped speaking to her and refuse to pay for college because she is a lesbian."


C est malheureux de voir que la fille a le culot de passer a la tele pour humilier son pere et sa mere !!!!!!!    

c'est malheureux de voir des parents ausi bornés!

[ayanna]

[
c'est malheureux de voir des parents ausi bornés!

[/quote]


des filles qui font" touche pipi "eternellement
ca te PLAIT !!!?????


JE PENSE QUE C EST QU ELLEs sont TOMBEes sur des amants comme toi qu elles deseperent des hommes !!!!

c est peut etre pour ca que tu les soutiens

[domi]

[quote=ayanna,Sunday 10 April 2005, 8:04]
[
c'est malheureux de voir des parents ausi bornés!

[/quote]


des filles qui font" touche pipi "eternellement
ca te PLAIT !!!?????


JE PENSE QUE C EST QU ELLEs sont TOMBEes sur des amants comme toi qu elles deseperent des hommes !!!!

c est peut etre pour ca que tu les soutiens

[/quote]

Tes arguments finissent par tomber bas .

[ayanna]

c'est malheureux de voir des parents ausi bornés!Tes arguments finissent par tomber bas .
[