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Woman Leads Us Muslims To Prayer la "Modernisation" de l'Islam Noter : -----

#1 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   djib_extremiste Icône

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Posté 21 mars 2005 - 06:22

Woman leads US Muslims to prayer

The congregation was evenly split between men and women
A professor in the US is thought to have become one of the first Muslim women to lead mixed Friday prayers.
More than 100 men and women attended the service and sermon given by Amina Wadud, professor of Islamic studies at Virginia Commonwealth University.

The location was moved to an Anglican Church building in New York after mosques refused to host the event.

The service has been criticised by a number of Muslim leaders, who say it goes against Islamic doctrine.

It's not proper for [men] to look at the woman whose body is in front of them

Sayed Tantawi
sheik of Cairo's Al-Azhar mosque

"The issue of gender equality is a very important one in Islam, and Muslims have unfortunately used highly restrictive interpretations of history to move backward," Ms Wadud said before the service started.

"With this prayer service we are moving forward. This single act is symbolic of the possibilities within Islam."

Those who attended were said to be evenly divided between men and women. Most women wore the traditional Muslim headscarf and robes.

Some 15 protesters gathered outside the Synod House of the Cathedral of St John the Divine, where the prayers took place. One carried a placard calling for Allah's curse to be upon one of the event's organisers.

"She is tarnishing the whole Islamic faith. If this was an Islamic state, this woman would be hanged," one man, Nussrah, told the Associated Press.

The BBC Middle East correspondent says the controversy has meant Ms Wadud is getting prominent coverage on Arabic television networks.

'Second class'

The service was organised by a group of activists, journalists and scholars who hoped to encourage discussion about the centuries-old tradition of separating men and women during congregational prayer, and reserving the role of prayer leader, or imam, for men.

One organiser, Asra Q Nomani, said they would challenge the "second-class" status of women in Muslim spiritual life.


Mosques reportedly refused to host Amina Wadud

"We are taking actions that no-one else would have dared to think about before," she told The New York Times. "Nobody cared that we didn't have a place in the faith."

However, the sheik of Cairo's Al-Azhar mosque, one of the world's top Islamic institutions, said Islam did not allow for women to preach to men.

"When she leads men in prayer... it's not proper for them to look at the woman whose body is in front of them," Sayed Tantawi wrote in a column for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram.

In New York, Aisha al-Adawiya, head of Women in Islam, said she feared a "backlash".

The prayer service was moved after it was rejected by three mosques and an art gallery venue received a bomb threat, the AP reported.
"There's gonna be some stuff u gonna see that's gonna make it hard To smile in the future, but through whatever you see, Through all the rain and all the pain, you gotta keep your sense of humor. you gotta be able to smile through all this bullsh*t"

Tupac Shakur
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#2 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Desaxee Icône

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Posté 21 mars 2005 - 06:43

ca chauffe pour les oulemas et leur enseignement rigide
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#3 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Walane Icône

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Posté 22 mars 2005 - 06:13

The fact that the “service” was moved to an Anglican church says it all. Religion’s modernist and innovators have no place in Islam.

“"With this prayer service we are moving forward. This single act is symbolic of the possibilities within Islam." Yeah that’s damn right, one more way of stigmatising and distorting Islam. Not only we must create woman like Ayan Hersi and Safia Oktore who says bad thing about Islam but we must also create/encourage/allow women to change it.


"The service was organised by a group of activists, journalists and scholars who hoped to encourage discussion about the centuries-old tradition of separating men and women during congregational prayer, and reserving the role of prayer leader, or imam, for men"

It’s not a tradition you baffoons, it’s a Religion. It was done that way; it should be kept that way. Islam is a universal religion and it works best when applied in total integrity.

"One organiser, Asra Q Nomani, said they would challenge the "second-class" status of women in Muslim spiritual life." That’s right an organiser, you may as well call him an feminist with an agenda. Women are not treated as second class they just different than men, therefore have a different role in this Uma. This is a role that a women is best at, more suited for. It’s a complementary role to that of a man.

"We are taking actions that no-one else would have dared to think about before," she told The New York Times. Yes, you are hero! Not ours though

"Nobody cared that we didn't have a place in the faith." You did/do/will have a place in Islam. It’s that just you want to twist, innovate, and undermine the Koran and the Sunna. People like you will be rejected by most of Muslims. No wonder you are in a church.


Questions for Desaxee: If most of muslim scholars disagreed on this with the backing of authentic hadiths, will you still be of the same view as this woman?
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God grant me the courage to change the things that I can control, the serenity to accept the things that I cannot control, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#4 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   ayanna Icône

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Icône du message  Posté 22 mars 2005 - 09:48

djib_extremiste, le Monday 21 March 2005, 3:22, dit :

Woman leads US Muslims to prayer 

The congregation was evenly split between men and women
A professor in the US is thought to have become one of the first Muslim women to lead mixed Friday prayers.
More than 100 men and women attended the service and sermon given by Amina Wadud, professor of Islamic studies at Virginia Commonwealth University.

The location was moved to an Anglican Church building in New York after mosques refused to host the event.

The service has been criticised by a number of Muslim leaders, who say it goes against Islamic doctrine.

  It's not proper for [men] to look at the woman whose body is in front of them

Sayed Tantawi
sheik of Cairo's Al-Azhar mosque

"The issue of gender equality is a very important one in Islam, and Muslims have unfortunately used highly restrictive interpretations of history to move backward," Ms Wadud said before the service started.

"With this prayer service we are moving forward. This single act is symbolic of the possibilities within Islam."

Those who attended were said to be evenly divided between men and women. Most women wore the traditional Muslim headscarf and robes.

Some 15 protesters gathered outside the Synod House of the Cathedral of St John the Divine, where the prayers took place. One carried a placard calling for Allah's curse to be upon one of the event's organisers.

"She is tarnishing the whole Islamic faith. If this was an Islamic state, this woman would be hanged," one man, Nussrah, told the Associated Press.

The BBC Middle East correspondent says the controversy has meant Ms Wadud is getting prominent coverage on Arabic television networks.

'Second class'

The service was organised by a group of activists, journalists and scholars who hoped to encourage discussion about the centuries-old tradition of separating men and women during congregational prayer, and reserving the role of prayer leader, or imam, for men.

One organiser, Asra Q Nomani, said they would challenge the "second-class" status of women in Muslim spiritual life.


Mosques reportedly refused to host Amina Wadud

"We are taking actions that no-one else would have dared to think about before," she told The New York Times. "Nobody cared that we didn't have a place in the faith."

However, the sheik of Cairo's Al-Azhar mosque, one of the world's top Islamic institutions, said Islam did not allow for women to preach to men.

"When she leads men in prayer... it's not proper for them to look at the woman whose body is in front of them," Sayed Tantawi wrote in a column for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram.

In New York, Aisha al-Adawiya, head of Women in Islam, said she feared a "backlash".

The prayer service was moved after it was rejected by three mosques and an art gallery venue received a bomb threat, the AP reported.
Voir le message




mister djib extremist ,


evite de deformer mes propos !!!please !!!evite la polemique inutile !!!

ai je demander que femmes fassent leur shows dans la rue devant cameras ???

CETTE FILLE EST TELLEMENT mediocre qu elle n a trouve rien de mieux que d utiliser religion pour etre mediatiser !!!! comme hirsi ali !!


pourquoi pas la revendication du port de minijupe a ryad ??? LA GAY PRIDE ...!!!
des revendication inutiles vont deferler evite de nous en faire part car tu rentres dans leur jeu

des personnes assoiffees de notoriete mais depourvue de talent vont utiliser tous les moyens et la religion en premier !!!
attends toi a voir des dizaines de hirsi ali dans l avenir a cause des journalistes qui n ont d autres a faire de couvrir des calamites comme ca !!


comme ton post "modernisation " de islam m est destinee
je te reponds ou bien relis ce que j ai ecris precedemment

ma revendication :suppression de tous chatiment corporels (lapidation, fouet )meme s ils sont prescrits par coran !!!

ai je demander ce que fait cette femme ? non alors evite ca please !!!

salutations l extremiste
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#5 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   azraf Icône

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Posté 23 mars 2005 - 01:51

il n'ya pas de demi-mesure en islam on dirait,soit on est avec l'islam et on accepte l'inacceptable soit on essayes de reflechir sur l'"esprit" de l'islam est on se fait descendre tout de suite!
la pensée unique nous guette on dirait "tu es avec nous ou tu es avec ayaan hersi" la discution est tuée avant même d'avoir commencé!
personnellement je crois en une solution entre ayaan hersi et le regime minable et peu glorieux des talibans!
même plus je prefere ayan hersi aux talibans,au moins elle ,elle ne tue personnes avec ses mots!
je pense que tant qu'entre nous même on interdira la parole,il n'y'aura pas d'islam uni ,donc pas de oumma ni de grandeur!!
il faut savoir supporter le choc des mots mes freres,si un vielle femme qui pointe le cul en l'air en amerique vous effraies à ce point ,on est pas sortis de l'auberge!
l'islam n'a rien à craindre,les symboles de l'islam et sa grandeur se trouve dans la foi des croyants,c'est par coeur que les musulmans peuvent reciter les 30 chapitre du coran,comment pouvez vous craindre qu'on vous enleve quelque chose?
les musulmans ici bas n'ont rien à perdre,et leurs farce symbolique ne me fait pas peur du tout!
la peur exterieure ne dois pas interdire le debat necessaire à l'interieur,le debat ne doit pas etre censuré par des gens qui croient savoir et qui cite des verset à des musulmans convaincus!!!


azraf!
ragna waa ragii hore ,hadalna waa intu yidhi!!

"l'occident est un accident,sa culture,une anomalie" roger garaudy.

"rien ne sert de partir à point, il faut courir." coluche
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#6 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   djib_extremiste Icône

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Posté 23 mars 2005 - 03:50

To WALANE
The question to ask is that what will be the future of Islam given the information above?
Is this woman a pionier to a generation of Islamic liberals?
One thing is evident, the enemies of Islam have found a new way of fighting it...
Today not every muslim knows about the religion for fact, there are a lotta Muslims in those western countries who remain ignorant about the fundamentals of our religion... they may get influenced by those ideas...and teach to there children and thus contamination their offspring....

One the other hand, the African American muslims in tha states have a religious society which is called the ISLAMIC NATION...
the leader of this society is called the ELIJAH MOHAMED, he is like a representative of GOD on earth.... He decides who is muslim and who is not...
A-A muslims do not beleieve in ISLAM as an end to itself....they believe in ISLAM as a means to an end... which is Freedom from the opressors.... the Whites....

for Muslims the religion is absolute and very holy, in other words it cannot be changed or altered by a human being... so If Allah has said so in the Quran...no Muslims until now have tried to contradict Him...As opposed to the the Christian "Bible" which have been written by the apostles and can be and have been altered in the course of time....

We need to be worried that our religion so "sacrée" could be some day modified and taught differently....

However ALLAH has said in the Quran that:

"we are the One that have sent down this religion and We will protect it"

TO AZRAF

Crois moi il ya de koi se demander des questions... je ne crois plus k'il existent des musilmens en sens propre du mot de nos jours... la femme dont il est question dans l'article est une PHD holder and juges de la photo ki est accompagner avec l'article... elle est tres credible et influencable....
c'est pas pour les millions d'arabes, de pakis, d'iraniens dont j'ai peur... mais de la population musilmane ki resident ds les pays occidentaux...

To AYANNA..

I dont think we are aquainted... je ne me souvient pas avoir fais ta connaissance.... ni lut un des post.... but whatever it is.... i dont care...everyone is entitled to his own opinion.... i dont care about ur liberals ideas as a matter of fact... faut choisir entre la baton et la carotte... ou bien tu accepte la religion telle kelle est, entierement, sans contradire les principes... ou bien reste athee.... c'est facile...

salutations AYANNE HERSI en herbe....ou apprentis....
"There's gonna be some stuff u gonna see that's gonna make it hard To smile in the future, but through whatever you see, Through all the rain and all the pain, you gotta keep your sense of humor. you gotta be able to smile through all this bullsh*t"

Tupac Shakur
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#7 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Desaxee Icône

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Posté 23 mars 2005 - 10:14

Walane
I always find pleasurable to see that not everyone is happy in islamic tradition and that disrupting voices raise to some sensitive issues as women's place in an islamic society.
for 2 millenuim we moved from a matriarchal society (pagan beliefs) to a patriarchal one more rigid and to some extent more constraignant to women. Thanks to the apparition of monotehist religions : christianism, islam.
Christianity when it appears was in opposition to paganism , pagan who deified women and idolized them, early christians wiped these beliefs from earth's face, Christianism demonized women and started a terrible persecution that killed milions of people from 15th to 18th century: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A531794 for more details.
From that period women lost their status and then came islam

I 'm telling you this to show that women in monotheists religions are from being equal to men, they are kept away from important roles (religious clerics, imams, priests or rabbis), they have a low status ( unfaithful women stoned to death).
They are feared, some hadiths said women outnumbre men in Hell (how could that be in a man's world? :blink: )...etc

For the last 3 three millenuims, we have a lived in a man's world, mysoginistic society, men making wars, bombs, decisions . They rule this planet and destroy nature.
Harmony can only be attained if man and women are equal in rights and duties.

Muslim women are making their revolution, questioning scholars.... and as in all revolutions, it starts rather abruptly (Ayaan hirsi). This is walane what you got for confining women in what you called "a role that a women is best at, more suited for".

These muslims women are in a free society, they can express themselves and show the path to others women. And as Azraf pointed out they only seem threatening to pro-talibans conservative muslims not to the UMMA (or muslim community in general). These women are not against Islam but against abusive mysogynict, hateful men who don't want to see women as their peers. Are you one of them walane?
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#8 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   ayanna Icône

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Icône du message  Posté 24 mars 2005 - 10:32

[quote=djib_extremiste,Wednesday 23 March 2005, 12:50]

bon...
bon...

sorry , malentendu je pensait une fois de plus de travers .......

pourquoi tant de mepris ?! je ne suis pas athee,warya !!!!!

maintenant je serais une ayaan hersi en herbe ?

POURRAIT tu surveiller un peu plus ton langage please !

par ailleurs quand je serais plus cultivee religieusement j espere ne pas etre aussi pessimiste que toi sur l avenir .

j espere que la lecture du coran me permettra d etre aussi sereine ,sage que coolwannabee ,abdeq et bien sur djib salaf ( quoique que y aurait bcp a dire sur lui !!!)

car je vois que des femmes comme ayaan hirsi ali ,celle ci amina wahud ont bcp d interet a tes yeux !!!

quand je serais pratiquante j espere ne pas avoir meme conception de la religion que toi sinon je vois pas interet de vivre dans la peur de telle ou telle personne insignifiante .... DIEU ne te donne t il pas confiance ?.....
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#9 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Balou Icône

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Posté 24 mars 2005 - 11:21

Desaxee,

Citation

  they are kept away from important roles (religious clerics, imams, priests or rabbis), they have a low status ( unfaithful women stoned to death).


honey women and men are equal in that sense that each has its own responsibility..women are good in that area but bad in that one whereas men might be bad in some and good in some. that s why we rare man nurse and a rare women pilot. that doesnt mean they are incapable but are well suited in that position.

Beside if u wanna move ur butt up an down by becoming a imama in front of radical wadad there is something to thing of twice.
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#10 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Desaxee Icône

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Posté 24 mars 2005 - 02:29

Balou Honey
We both know that this imaama is using this title just to prove a point that women have a low status in all monotheits religions and this could engender prejudice against them.
Islam's faith doesn't need inequality, we can all live in harmony if we are intelligent enough to see that Sharia must be reformed . Stop giving sharia this whole holy status , it's indeniably inspired by Qur'an and Sunnah but who decided what goes into shria laws and what doesn't? Quran is not sharia, it's written by men and therefore subjective to mistakes, their own interpretations, and the Context.

They (muslims clerics, imaams and other bigwigs) can give to women equal rights to men without destroying ISlam. The essence of Islam is not based on prejudicing women.

Moreover, Sharia is "to establish social justice, equality, tolerance, and freedom of religion in societies" but it is the case ??? Think twice conutries which applied sharia laws are far from being democratic/tolerant : Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan.
What about the rest of muslim comunity, what about Indonesia (the biggest muslim country), Malysia, Magreb, Africa,Ex-soviets countries? what did they refuse to adopt strict sharia laws? Are they wrong? Are they corrupted as people in the forum like to put it?
Aren't they true muslim? why did they apply sharia selectively?
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#11 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Walane Icône

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Posté 24 mars 2005 - 03:05

I am definitely not one of them. I love my wife to bits and won’t allow a man abuse or mistreat my newborn baby daughter (when she grows up off course) . I understand that there are a lot of man who abuse their wife, sisters and even mothers. Very often these men used Religion to undermine the women status. I hate to see families sending back their daughter to the house of the men (husband) who gave her bruises. This is often true in our tradition, Somali tradition. Many things have to be changed but not the way Ayan Hirsi, or the women in this article are suggesting. There is a fine line between a modern feminist (whom attention is far from protecting women’s right) and someone who’s genuinely seeking change in the mentality of men, WOMEN in the Muslim and non-Muslim nation, when it comes to women’s status. We have to be careful with what we say and whom we support. We can easily end up in the wrong side.

“This is walane what you got for confining women in what you called "a role that a women is best at, more suited for".” This isn’t to say that men do not need women to carry his duties. His role is complementary to that of women too. There cannot one without the other.

“And as Azraf pointed out they only seem threatening to pro-talibans conservative muslims not to the UMMA (or muslim community in general).” False statement. Ayan Hersi attacked personally the prophet (SBUH). She treated him as a paedophile.

Desaxee, I have been recently to a speech (Islamic). And I have found out that as Muslims we have to two type of knowledge. The obligatory one and the voluntary. The first one is for the average men and women, for those who do not intend to learn deeply Islam, those who simply follow the Sunna of the prophet. An example of this one is: Shahada. Why do you think there can only be one God? You can’t just accept this believe because your ancestors did. You must study, learn, search, question until you convinced of it. This way it will be carved onto your heart and brain.
An example of a voluntary knowledge is the Fiq question like : can women lead obligatory and supererogatory prayers. These are the sort of question that our scholars ( I am not talking about your local sheikhs or imam) discuss and have discussed. Notice that scholar (from different nationalities, don’t assume they all from Saudi Arabia or Arab nations) base their discussions, debate, on the four schools/madhab of Islam and back them with verifiable (sahih) hadiths.
Now unless you want it to be a scholar yourself you leave these to the people who spend day and night, who spend their entire life learning and understanding the Koran, Hadith, Tawhid, Tajwid, Figh, Aqida, Khutabs, Tazkiya.
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The message on this post reflects solely the opinions of the author who accept no responsibilities for any physical, emotional, moral, material or pyscholigical damage.

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God grant me the courage to change the things that I can control, the serenity to accept the things that I cannot control, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#12 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   djib_extremiste Icône

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Posté 24 mars 2005 - 04:11

Desaxee, le Thursday 24 March 2005, 15:29, dit :

Balou Honey
We both know that this imaama is using this title just to prove a point that women have a low status in all monotheits religions and this could engender prejudice against them.
Islam's faith doesn't need inequality, we can all live in harmony if we are intelligent enough to see that Sharia must be reformed . Stop giving sharia this whole holy status , it's indeniably inspired by Qur'an and Sunnah but who decided what goes into shria laws and what doesn't? Quran is not sharia, it's written by men and therefore subjective to mistakes, their own interpretations, and the Context.

They (muslims clerics, imaams and other bigwigs) can give to women equal rights to men without destroying ISlam. The essence of Islam is not based on prejudicing women.

Moreover, Sharia is "to establish social justice, equality, tolerance, and freedom of religion in societies" but it is the case ??? Think twice  conutries which applied sharia laws are far from being democratic/tolerant : Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan.
What about the rest of muslim comunity, what about Indonesia (the biggest muslim country), Malysia, Magreb, Africa,Ex-soviets countries? what did they refuse to adopt strict sharia laws? Are they wrong? Are they corrupted as people in the forum like to put it?
Aren't they true muslim? why did they apply sharia selectively?
Voir le message


Desaxee....
Cousine... if you had a little bit more information on these countries judicial systems... you would nt say that they are applying the shariah laws per-se...
what iam tryna say in dat... Everyone knows that the shariah is derived from the Quran and the Sunnah by the 4 Madhahib... you may argue, if you will, that they might be influenced by some cultural factors and may percieve and position the woman as being inferior than man... but who is better knowledgeable and religiously inclined to come up with some accurate interpretation of the Quran than them... you think that Khadafi or Ismail Omar Guelleh can do better...

Bottomline.. .the Shariah is a very clever thing... its the people of today that are too literal in their interpratations....Who is better than Allah knows what is right for Mankind.....
I understand that some elements in the Shariah need to be changed and modified due to the fact that time and lifestyle changes must be considered... You would say that we should appoint some poeple....but I ve heard that the Shariah Advisory Board in some country has approved some Conventionnal Debt instruments (that has Ribah) as a permissible(Hallal) Islamic instruments... In a lotta wayz the personnal interest of these people seems to be conflicting the Islamic laws... Resultat!!!!!

The question is who to trust????

To Ayanna...

Citation

car je vois que des femmes comme ayaan hirsi ali ,celle ci amina wahud ont bcp d interet a tes yeux !!!


c'est toi ki 'interresse beaucoup ma cherie...Quant tu sera pratikante let me know.... we can go out to some nightclubs... and have a good time... notez bien k'on feras tous ceci sans violer les regles Islamic :P cest a dire sans.... ;)
"There's gonna be some stuff u gonna see that's gonna make it hard To smile in the future, but through whatever you see, Through all the rain and all the pain, you gotta keep your sense of humor. you gotta be able to smile through all this bullsh*t"

Tupac Shakur
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#13 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Walane Icône

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Posté 24 mars 2005 - 05:47

Djibextremist

I don’t want to discuss about the nation of Islam. Seriously one just need to found out about the fundamentals of their believes to realise how contradictory it is to the Sunna of the prophet (SBUH).

"we are the One that have sent down this religion and We will protect it"

This is right. Allah protects his Manual for Humanity. He created us and knows us best. He is the wise, the doer, and the destroyer of delight. He is aware of everything that is going on.

I can’t say much about the Christian bible. However my common sense tells me that it is not the word of God. It contains, stories written by apostles, dreams of apostles. I know until these days they change it all the time. Just have look at the different version of the bible. Having say that I feel closer to a Christian and Jewish than a budhist or Hindu. This is because they are the people of the “book” and they believe in one GOD.

Like you Desaxee need to accept that very few Islamic nations apply the Sharia. Those who, do do not apply it fully. Seriously, go on and found yourself. Djibouti applies a mixture of French, xeer-issa and some Islamic law. God knows which law we’ll use tomorrow.

“I understand that some elements in the Shariah need to be changed and modified due to the fact that time and lifestyle changes must be considered... You would say that we should appoint some poeple....but I ve heard that the Shariah Advisory Board in some country has approved some Conventionnal Debt instruments (that has Ribah) as a permissible(Hallal) Islamic instruments... In a lotta wayz the personnal interest of these people seems to be conflicting the Islamic laws... Resultat!!!!!”

As for the question of “review” Sharia, it is debatable. But before we go there we need to understand: the “why of the Sharia” or what is it for? Unlike the human law, Sharia tend to protect human everywhere, not just muslims. Now if you can pin-point a particular part of the Sharia that tells us the opposite it can be looked at, again by our scholars. But you have to challenge them.

The RIBBA or what we call interest/interet here in the west is a big crime in Islam.
Here is some verses of the Quran:
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
"Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba." (2:275)

Here are some verified hadiths:
Prophet says:

"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
"One dirham of Riba that a man devours, while knowing it is Riba, is more severe (in crime) than thirty-six acts of fornication (or adultery)." (Ahmad with a Sahih chain of narration)
"Riba has seventy-three doors. The least one (in sin) is as that of a man who sleeps with his mother. And worst form of Riba is harming the honor of a Muslim man." (Al-Hakim, who graded it Sahih)

The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said:
Keep away from the seven fatalities."

It was asked, "What are they, O Messenger of Allah?" He replied:

"Associating others with Allah, magic, taking a life Allah has made sacred - except with a just cause, consuming the wealth of Ar-Riba, consuming the wealth of the orphan, fleeing from the battlefield, and accusing innocent chaste believing women." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Ribba causes prostitution and world poverty around the world. Ribba is destroying the Brazilian echo system (Amazon). The government there (and other countries) must destroy wild life habitat to pay off debt with interest to rich countries. Ribba widens the gab between the rich and the poor; something that will never happened in Islamic watch. We seriously need to stop re-inventing the wheels.
Disclaimer:
The message on this post reflects solely the opinions of the author who accept no responsibilities for any physical, emotional, moral, material or pyscholigical damage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God grant me the courage to change the things that I can control, the serenity to accept the things that I cannot control, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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#14 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   agentlo Icône

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Posté 25 mars 2005 - 06:57

Walane, le Thursday 24 March 2005, 14:47, dit :

Djibextremist

I don’t want to discuss about the nation of Islam. Seriously one just need to found out about the fundamentals of their believes to realise how contradictory it is to the Sunna of the prophet (SBUH).

"we are the One that have sent down this religion and We will protect it"

This is right. Allah protects his Manual for Humanity. He created us and knows us best. He is the wise, the doer, and the destroyer of delight. He is aware of everything that is going on.

I can’t say much about the Christian bible. However my common sense tells me that it is not the word of God. It contains, stories written by apostles, dreams of apostles. I know until these days they change it all the time. Just have look at the different version of the bible. Having say that I feel closer to a Christian and Jewish than a budhist or Hindu. This is because they are the people of the “book” and they believe in one GOD.

Like you Desaxee need to accept that very few Islamic nations apply the Sharia. Those who, do do not apply it fully. Seriously, go on and found yourself. Djibouti applies a mixture of French, xeer-issa and some Islamic law.  God knows which law we’ll use tomorrow.

“I understand that some elements in the Shariah need to be changed and modified due to the fact that time and lifestyle changes must be considered... You would say that we should appoint some poeple....but I ve heard that the Shariah Advisory Board in some country has approved some Conventionnal Debt instruments (that has Ribah) as a permissible(Hallal) Islamic instruments... In a lotta wayz the personnal interest of these people seems to be conflicting the Islamic laws... Resultat!!!!!”

As for the question of “review” Sharia, it is debatable. But before we go there we need to understand: the “why of the Sharia” or what is it for? Unlike the human law,  Sharia tend to protect human everywhere, not just muslims. Now if you can pin-point a particular part of the Sharia that tells us the opposite it can be looked at, again by our scholars. But you have to challenge them.

The RIBBA or what we call interest/interet here in the west is a big crime in Islam.
Here is some verses of the Quran:
  "O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
  "Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba." (2:275)

Here are some verified hadiths:
Prophet says:

"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
"One dirham of Riba that a man devours, while knowing it is Riba, is more severe (in crime) than thirty-six acts of fornication (or adultery)." (Ahmad with a Sahih chain of narration)
"Riba has seventy-three doors. The least one (in sin) is as that of a man who sleeps with his mother. And worst form of Riba is harming the honor of a Muslim man." (Al-Hakim, who graded it Sahih)

The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said:
Keep away from the seven fatalities."

It was asked, "What are they, O Messenger of Allah?" He replied:

"Associating others with Allah, magic, taking a life Allah has made sacred - except with a just cause, consuming the wealth of Ar-Riba, consuming the wealth of the orphan, fleeing from the battlefield, and accusing innocent chaste believing women." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Ribba causes prostitution and world poverty around the world. Ribba is destroying the Brazilian echo system (Amazon). The government there (and other countries) must destroy wild life habitat to pay off debt with interest to rich countries. Ribba widens the gab between the rich and the poor; something that will never happened in Islamic watch. We seriously need to stop re-inventing the wheels.
Voir le message



Hear dear friends Islam has always been clear and universal. So stop saying modernisation of Islam, wat a nonsense.

I fought always 4 the respect of women, women r equal to men. But Allah subhanahu wata'la has given the authority to men. Whoever says authority says Imam, the law is clear and this amina wahud deserve to die coz she is a fitna.

Dear sister dont fall into the trap by our ennemies, ayan hersi needs a status in Netherland and this lady sermoning in a church just wanne be the first women to lead a friday prayer. There r fitna to our religions, so dont follow their steps otherwise u will regret.

I'm gonna call ben laden and the taliban to give a lesson to such people. If there is a benefit from al qaida and taliban is that there r the best to find a solution for such misguided people aminah and ayan hersi.
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#15 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Balou Icône

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Posté 25 mars 2005 - 10:02

what is funny in this whole issue is why do we ve muslim women solliciting to fight for the women's right while at the same it happen in all the monotheist religion as Desaxee pointed out: in judaism women are not allowed to participate in religious services and in the roman catholics they are not allowed to have a higher hierarchy position that s surely why u dont see mostly a women near the Pope .

Desaxee
shariah does not need to be reformed but instead the way muslim are carryin out need some.
the countries u are naming saudi Arabia and neighbour, though they are claiming they are following the shariah, which is questionable of course, are more influenced by their culture but not the shariah mostly.
and u as a muslim woman u should not base Islam and shriah according to this countries but based on the true teaching of Islam.
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