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La Bible, Le Coran Et La Science Debats, Dialogue religieux entre Musulmans et Chretiens Noter : -----

#1 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   agentlo Icône

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Posté 04 mai 2013 - 08:04

As Salam 3aleykum wrt wbkt,

Je veux partager des débats religieux entre Allah yar ham Sheikh Ahmed Deedat et plusieurs Pasteurs chrétiens de l'Europe, USA, etc...

Donc je vs prierai de bien respecter l'un et l'autre et ne pas faire ce post d'un champ de bataille, donc respectons les autres religions si on veut que l'on respecte la notre (je parle de mes frères musulmans). Donc prière de contrôler vos émotions, car certaines personnes vous provoqueront et essayeront de divertir le sujet a leur fins.

Clicker sur pour voir les vidéos:

Ahmed Deedat - Muhammed In The Bible - Lecture

Muhammad (PBUH) The Greatest - Lecture in New York - Sheikh Ahmed

Ahmed Deedat Vs Robert Douglas - Crucifixion - Fact or Fiction?

Is the Bible God's Word - Ahmed Deedat Vs. Jimmy Swaggart

Is Jesus God? - Debate - Ahmed Deedat VS Stanley Sjoberg

Is The Bible The Word of God? - Debate - Sheikh Ahmed Deedat VS Stanley Sjoberg

FULL - Concept of God in Hinduism Ahmed Deedat

Abullah Al-Asmarani (Agentlo)
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#2 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   the turtle Icône

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Posté 05 mai 2013 - 01:32

What a selection based on knowledge ..!! =D>
Tx, bro ...!! :)
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#3 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 11:21

Voir le messagethe turtle, le 04 May 2013 - 10:32 PM, dit :

What a selection based on knowledge ..!! =D>
Tx, bro ...!! :)

What happened to you, Man. Seems you have become a Yes-man. Ahmed Deedat is criticizing the Christian Faith. It was a project to get money from the Saudis. It is a lie to say prophet Mohamed is mentioned in the Bible. A plain lie. Jesus and his story in the Quran by name but Prophet Mohamed's (peace be upon him) is not in the Bible.
Imagine someone tells you "The Holy Quran is not the word of Allah". You get furious though any sound mind understands that it is human, dictated by prophet and written by Osman with human language, with man-made letters, numbers and punctuation marks...etc
The Bible was written by men and so was the Quran. Are they revealed by God/Allah? This is another issue.
Better future for our kids.
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#4 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 11:29

I believe 70 percent of the Quran and Hadith come from the Bible. Most of the hadishs narrated by Abu Hureira and Ubeya Ben Ka'ab are from the Bible. They just ommitted the source and said these are hadiths of Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon).
Just read books and compare. You will be astonished when you find out that even the five prayers in Islam were there in the Bible before Islam.
Better future for our kids.
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#5 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   the turtle Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 12:27

Voir le messageking(1), le 18 novembre 2013 - 11:21 , dit :

What happened to you, Man. Seems you have become a Yes-man. Ahmed Deedat is criticizing the Christian Faith. It was a project to get money from the Saudis. It is a lie to say prophet Mohamed is mentioned in the Bible. A plain lie. Jesus and his story in the Quran by name but Prophet Mohamed's (peace be upon him) is not in the Bible.
Imagine someone tells you "The Holy Quran is not the word of Allah". You get furious though any sound mind understands that it is human, dictated by prophet and written by Osman with human language, with man-made letters, numbers and punctuation marks...etc
The Bible was written by men and so was the Quran. Are they revealed by God/Allah? This is another issue.

Encore ton delire ...? En plus de si tot ...?
On a vu que tu pretais la possession des esclaves a mohammed, pour on ne sait quelle raison, alors que celui-la ne le faisais plus. Voir la reponse de Mahad du post 109. En plus, tu n'as meme pas l'honnetete de lui dire merci, une fois qu'il a eclaire ta petite lanterne.
http://www.djibnet.c...s/page__st__105

Je peine souvent, quand je te lis, a croire que tu sais distinguer l'aube du crepuscule. Mais, helas, la verite est que tu ne le fais pas.
Depasse, king, cette petite croisade a la Ayane Hersi, que tu menes contre l'Islam. Et reconnais a ces gens, mahad et Agentlo, les meme droits que tu reconnais aux autres, qui sont chez eux. Ils ne sont que chez eux et meritent qu'on les respecte. Garde-toi de la politique de deux poids deux mesures, que tu leur menes. Et en cela on voit qu'en plus de ta confusion chronique, tu en viens a la malhonnetete. :)

Ce message a été modifié par the turtle - 18 novembre 2013 - 12:42 .

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#6 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 06:56

Voir le messagethe turtle, le 18 November 2013 - 09:27 AM, dit :

Encore ton delire ...? En plus de si tot ...?
On a vu que tu pretais la possession des esclaves a mohammed, pour on ne sait quelle raison, alors que celui-la ne le faisais plus. Voir la reponse de Mahad du post 109. En plus, tu n'as meme pas l'honnetete de lui dire merci, une fois qu'il a eclaire ta petite lanterne.
http://www.djibnet.c...s/page__st__105

Je peine souvent, quand je te lis, a croire que tu sais distinguer l'aube du crepuscule. Mais, helas, la verite est que tu ne le fais pas.
Depasse, king, cette petite croisade a la Ayane Hersi, que tu menes contre l'Islam. Et reconnais a ces gens, mahad et Agentlo, les meme droits que tu reconnais aux autres, qui sont chez eux. Ils ne sont que chez eux et meritent qu'on les respecte. Garde-toi de la politique de deux poids deux mesures, que tu leur menes. Et en cela on voit qu'en plus de ta confusion chronique, tu en viens a la malhonnetete. :)

Ahmed Deedat and his fellows preach hatred and try to give a wrong impression about Christianity to Muslims. They say plus que qu'un milliards de croyants chrétiens ont tort and deserve no respect. This is why we see unjustified animosity against Christian minority in many countries because someone like Deedat is deliberately targetting those people.
Agentlo has the right to have his own say. I've never denied his right to do so. But but and the problem is in that "BUT" he does not seem just in some of his posts. I might be wrong in this but it is my feeling he is targetting someone.
I respect your point of view. Your standpoint is yours and I have mine. Ayan Hersi is a brave woman though I don't agree with her on some of her statements. Because of her words/books, she is facing death threats. Someone wants her to live like a slave not like a free human being. I support her fight for freedom of exp​ression and personal liberty.
Better future for our kids.
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#7 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   the turtle Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 07:19

Voir le messageking(1), le 18 novembre 2013 - 06:56 , dit :

Ahmed Deedat and his fellows preach hatred and try to give a wrong impression about Christianity to Muslims. They say plus que qu'un milliards de croyants chrétiens ont tort and deserve no respect. This is why we see unjustified animosity against Christian minority in many countries because someone like Deedat is deliberately targetting those people.
Agentlo has the right to have his own say. I've never denied his right to do so. But but and the problem is in that "BUT" he does not seem just in some of his posts. I might be wrong in this but it is my feeling he is targetting someone.
I respect your point of view. Your standpoint is yours and I have mine. Ayan Hersi is a brave woman though I don't agree with her on some of her statements. Because of her words/books, she is facing death threats. Someone wants her to live like a slave not like a free human being. I support her fight for freedom of exp​ression and personal liberty.

http://www.djibnet.c...61-brave-king1/

Chere ame, je fais ce billet du lien ci-dessus pour toi. Et j'y ai mis le meilleur conseil en accord avec ton habituel petit galimatia dont tu aimes nous saouler avec, et pour lequel tu es si celebre.

Le miserabilisme et l'anti-islam sont aujourd'hui les deux riches mamelles de la fortune. Et heureusement que tu en es si pourvue, de l'un comme de l'autre, belle ame. Alors, aies l'intelligence, d'y foncer tete baissee, que de te gacher sur ce site. No guts no glory, as they said, my dear poor friend.
D'autant plus que demain, tout peut changer et que la roue de la fortune peut lorgner d'autres heros. Qu'en savons-nous, en effet, de demain ..? Absolument rien. Alors fonce-z-y que de perdre ton temps avec moi.
Ps: this my last reply. Just Taking care of my own fortune that lies elsewhere than being in conversation with you. :)
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#8 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 18 novembre 2013 - 07:38

Voir le messagethe turtle, le 18 November 2013 - 04:19 PM, dit :

http://www.djibnet.c...61-brave-king1/

Chere ame, je fais ce billet du lien ci-dessus pour toi. Et j'y ai mis le meilleur conseil en accord avec ton habituel petit galimatia dont tu aimes nous saouler avec, et pour lequel tu es si celebre.

Le miserabilisme et l'anti-islam sont aujourd'hui les deux riches mamelles de la fortune. Et heureusement que tu en es si pourvue, de l'un comme de l'autre, belle ame. Alors, aies l'intelligence, d'y foncer tete baissee, que de te gacher sur ce site. No guts no glory, as they said, my dear poor friend.
D'autant plus que demain, tout peut changer et que la roue de la fortune peut lorgner d'autres heros. Qu'en savons-nous, en effet, de demain ..? Absolument rien. Alors fonce-z-y que de perdre ton temps avec moi.
Ps: this my last reply. Just Taking care of my own fortune that lies elsewhere than being in conversation with you. :)

Your eyes cannot see anti-Christianism of some friends but stare at my anti-Islamism. What a logic, Bro!
Islam is a religion like any other religion in the world. It has its pros and cons. Muslims are like any other human beings on Planet Earth. They have good people and evil ones.
I don't believe Islam is better than CHristianity or Judaism.
Better future for our kids.
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#9 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   agentlo Icône

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Posté 20 novembre 2013 - 05:25

Voir le messageking(1), le 18 November 2013 - 04:38 PM, dit :

I don't believe Islam is better than CHristianity or Judaism.


@King it seems you don't differentiate between Muslims behaviours and Islam.
Anyhow the above statement summarize your beliefs. I will only pray that may Allah guide you and us on the right path. Ameen Ameen Ameen ya Allah.

For the Record:
The Qur’anic injunction “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord” was close to Deedat’s heart. He had a grudging admiration for the dedication of Christian missionaries. That admiration fueled his acts of da’wah which you migh seem to disagree with King (you are free to do so), but never say he preached hatred! Because you are making an accusation and bias towards a great man with prejudice, after all you were the one who were advising me not to make accusation B) .
Ahmed Deedat made massive contribution to the Muslim world in the late twentieth century when many Muslims were suffering from an inferiority complex about Westerners and Western civilization.

Ce message a été modifié par agentlo - 20 novembre 2013 - 05:26 .

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#10 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 20 novembre 2013 - 06:53

Voir le messageagentlo, le 20 November 2013 - 02:25 AM, dit :

@King it seems you don't differentiate between Muslims behaviours and Islam.
Anyhow the above statement summarize your beliefs. I will only pray that may Allah guide you and us on the right path. Ameen Ameen Ameen ya Allah.

For the Record:
The Qur’anic injunction “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord” was close to Deedat’s heart. He had a grudging admiration for the dedication of Christian missionaries. That admiration fueled his acts of da’wah which you migh seem to disagree with King (you are free to do so), but never say he preached hatred! Because you are making an accusation and bias towards a great man with prejudice, after all you were the one who were advising me not to make accusation B) .
Ahmed Deedat made massive contribution to the Muslim world in the late twentieth century when many Muslims were suffering from an inferiority complex about Westerners and Western civilization.

Thanks, frère, for the pray.
You are right there is a big difference between Islam as a Faith and a Muslim as an individual, a human being with sinful nature like any other human being in the world.
I admired Deedat's debates and read his pamphlets for many years. I agree the man had a good heart and tried to contribute in a Muslim-Christian dialogue. He was a scholar a devout sheick. However, he did not agree on any debate about the Quran with Christian scholars and theologians. Dr. Zakir Naik has also followed him in this. The question is "What is the point when a Muslim crosses all borders and cricizes another faith though he denies that right to others?"
No Muslim agreed with Salman Rushdie when he talked about the Holy Quran. Instead, Ayatu-Allah Khomeini of Iran and other Muslims said "Salman shoud die!"
Why do you think Christian believers have not the right to say "Death to Deedat or to Zakir Naik because of their blasphemy against Christianity?!!!"
This is the dilemma I think.
Better future for our kids.
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#11 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   the turtle Icône

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Posté 20 novembre 2013 - 11:31

agentlo,
puisque d'entre nous tu es le mieux verse en choses sacrees, que peux-tu m'apprendre sur Iblis. Quels etaient les rapports entre lui et Son Createur, avant et apres sa revolte ? Je voudrai un jour faire un poeme sur lui. Alors, aide-moi, de ton mieux, cher frere. Lache sur ce present billet, tes inestimables connaissances sur ses mesaventures. Ses hauts et ses bas, j'aimerais les comprendre.

Ps: ce n'est pas urgent. Alors, prends tout ton temps ..! :)

Voir le messageagentlo, le 04 mai 2013 - 08:04 , dit :

As Salam 3aleykum wrt wbkt,

Je veux partager des débats religieux entre Allah yar ham Sheikh Ahmed Deedat et plusieurs Pasteurs chrétiens de l'Europe, USA, etc...

Donc je vs prierai de bien respecter l'un et l'autre et ne pas faire ce post d'un champ de bataille, donc respectons les autres religions si on veut que l'on respecte la notre (je parle de mes frères musulmans). Donc prière de contrôler vos émotions, car certaines personnes vous provoqueront et essayeront de divertir le sujet a leur fins.

Clicker sur pour voir les vidéos:

Ahmed Deedat - Muhammed In The Bible - Lecture

Muhammad (PBUH) The Greatest - Lecture in New York - Sheikh Ahmed

Ahmed Deedat Vs Robert Douglas - Crucifixion - Fact or Fiction?

Is the Bible God's Word - Ahmed Deedat Vs. Jimmy Swaggart

Is Jesus God? - Debate - Ahmed Deedat VS Stanley Sjoberg

Is The Bible The Word of God? - Debate - Sheikh Ahmed Deedat VS Stanley Sjoberg

FULL - Concept of God in Hinduism Ahmed Deedat

Abullah Al-Asmarani (Agentlo)

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#12 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   agentlo Icône

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Posté 21 novembre 2013 - 06:28

Voir le messagethe turtle, le 20 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, dit :

agentlo,
puisque d'entre nous tu es le mieux verse en choses sacrees, que peux-tu m'apprendre sur Iblis. Quels etaient les rapports entre lui et Son Createur, avant et apres sa revolte ? Je voudrai un jour faire un poeme sur lui. Alors, aide-moi, de ton mieux, cher frere. Lache sur ce present billet, tes inestimables connaissances sur ses mesaventures. Ses hauts et ses bas, j'aimerais les comprendre.
Ps: ce n'est pas urgent. Alors, prends tout ton temps ..! :)


@Turtle frere je n'oserai pas dire que je suis un Ustaz ou specialist sur l'Islam, mais je partagerais ce que j'ai entendu du sheikh tarik alsowaydan (from kuwait) in his lectures of Qisas Al Annbiyaa (Prophet & Messengers life).

According to Sheikh Alsowaydan, before Allah created Man (Adam) 3alayhi al saltu was salam...Allah subhanahu wa ta3ala created the Jiins by at least 2000 years before Man and they lived on earth.
However the Jinns created mischiefs, disbeliefs, chaos and killed one another to bloodshed. This point if proof when Allah said to the Angels “‘Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.’ They said: ‘Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.’ God said: ‘I know that which you do not know.’” (Quran 2:30) The Angels mentionned blooshed although by creation Angel don't have blood, they spoke on experience about what the Jinns did on earth. It should be noted also that Angels don't question the order of Allah, but they were worried that they did shortcomings in their duties towards Allah, that Allah resorted to create a Man.

So before Allah created Adam, he ordered Angels to chase the Jinns from earth and huge battles happened between the Angels and Jinns. The Jinns were pushed deep into the Ocean and Seas and currently Iblis or Satan throne is on the Ocean/ High Seas.

And so begins the story of Adam, the first man, the first human being. God created Adam from a handful of soil containing portions from all its varieties on Earth. Angels were sent to earth to collect the soil that was to become Adam. It was red, white, brown, and black; it was soft and malleable, hard and gritty; it came from the mountains and the valleys; from infertile deserts and lush fertile plains and all the natural varieties in between. The descendants of Adam were destined to be as diverse as the handful of soil from which their ancestor was created; all have different appearances, attributes and qualities.

Iblis was a Jiin by birth and a devout Jinns who always obayed Allah commands. Iblis lived in heaven with the Angels and had a very High place in front of Allah. So during the creation of Adam when is body was formed, the body was left aside for a period of time without the sould breathed into it (soul). During that time Iblis was curious and wanted to know why Allah created this creature made of soil and for what purpose? His curiosity has grown into jealousy furthermore when he heard Allay says : “And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)

He become jealous that he lose his position as the favorite in front of Allah among his creation. So when Allah has created Adam honoured the first humman, Adam, in countless ways. Allah blew his soul into him, He fashioned him with His own hands and He ordered the Angels to bow down before him. And God said to the Angels:
"And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.’ So they prostrated themselves except ‘Iblis’ (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord" (Quran, Al-Kahf: 50).

Ibliss's arrogance – reinforced by his false logic, and jealousy – prevented him from obeying Allah’s command. As Allah tells us in the Quran, Satan said, "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay" (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 12).

Iblis was arrogant and proud, the following verse in the Quran are further proofs.

“….And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah)” (Quran, Al-Baqarah: 34).

Allah said: "O Iblees (Satan)! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?"
Iblees (Satan)said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud" (Quran, al-Hijr:32 – 33).


NB,Brotherly remindeder:Arrogance and pride is a dangerous attribute to have and we should always becareful as it might cost the paradise.

I hope the above answer your question and Allah know best than me and anybody.

Here are the references and some more source brother @turtle:
Al Imam ibn Katheer, The Stories of the Prophets.
Saheeh Al-Bukhari
Saheeh Muslim
Ibn Katheer.
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#13 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   agentlo Icône

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Posté 21 novembre 2013 - 07:06

Voir le messageking(1), le 20 November 2013 - 03:53 PM, dit :

Thanks, frère, for the pray.
You are right there is a big difference between Islam as a Faith and a Muslim as an individual, a human being with sinful nature like any other human being in the world.
I admired Deedat's debates and read his pamphlets for many years. I agree the man had a good heart and tried to contribute in a Muslim-Christian dialogue. He was a scholar a devout sheick. However, he did not agree on any debate about the Quran with Christian scholars and theologians. Dr. Zakir Naik has also followed him in this. The question is "What is the point when a Muslim crosses all borders and cricizes another faith though he denies that right to others?"
Why do you think Christian believers have not the right to say "Death to Deedat or to Zakir Naik because of their blasphemy against Christianity?!!!"
This is the dilemma I think.

@King I think you are mixing water and oil togethere. First nobody has blasphemed anybody, Deedat and Zakir Naik only asked simple questions and direct questions with simple logics.

Deedat rahimahu allah objective in debating was to come into one comment point with christianity and Judaism, as all 3 religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are monotheistic religions and have the same sources. But due to some factors some men has deviated these religions to their own agendas like the constant changes in the Bible and that what was Mr. Deedat conveying to christians that we are in the same team, point at hand he will always start in his debate " No single muslim is a muslim if he/she does not believe in the Messiah and all Messanger and Prophet of Allah".

Regarding Christians priest or theologicians debating the Quran, I think we both know that answer because the Quran was never re-written by some guys who as their own wish move/add/replace some verses and will never be. Proof at hand many scientific discoveries are supporting the verses in the Quran. Furthermore they don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad as the last Messanger, so who to blame for that if they already discredit your beliefs without starting the debate

Voir le messageking(1), le 20 November 2013 - 03:53 PM, dit :

No Muslim agreed with Salman Rushdie when he talked about the Holy Quran. Instead, Ayatu-Allah Khomeini of Iran and other Muslims said "Salman shoud die!"


Salman Rushdie I never did read his book, but if he insulted the Quran and called Satanic Verses, then he commited blasphemy as did Ayan Hersi in Holland, that the Netherland government quick her out.

So let us no mix things and always subtantiate our saying with concrete proofs.

Salam
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#14 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   the turtle Icône

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Posté 21 novembre 2013 - 11:08

Merci, le frere. C'est tres sympa ....! :)
J'aurais une ou deux questions mais elles viendront plus tard. Si tu acceptes de m'aider, bien entendu ..! :)

Voir le messageagentlo, le 21 novembre 2013 - 06:28 , dit :

@Turtle frere je n'oserai pas dire que je suis un Ustaz ou specialist sur l'Islam, mais je partagerais ce que j'ai entendu du sheikh tarik alsowaydan (from kuwait) in his lectures of Qisas Al Annbiyaa (Prophet & Messengers life).

According to Sheikh Alsowaydan, before Allah created Man (Adam) 3alayhi al saltu was salam...Allah subhanahu wa ta3ala created the Jiins by at least 2000 years before Man and they lived on earth.
However the Jinns created mischiefs, disbeliefs, chaos and killed one another to bloodshed. This point if proof when Allah said to the Angels “‘Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.’ They said: ‘Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.’ God said: ‘I know that which you do not know.’” (Quran 2:30) The Angels mentionned blooshed although by creation Angel don't have blood, they spoke on experience about what the Jinns did on earth. It should be noted also that Angels don't question the order of Allah, but they were worried that they did shortcomings in their duties towards Allah, that Allah resorted to create a Man.

So before Allah created Adam, he ordered Angels to chase the Jinns from earth and huge battles happened between the Angels and Jinns. The Jinns were pushed deep into the Ocean and Seas and currently Iblis or Satan throne is on the Ocean/ High Seas.

And so begins the story of Adam, the first man, the first human being. God created Adam from a handful of soil containing portions from all its varieties on Earth. Angels were sent to earth to collect the soil that was to become Adam. It was red, white, brown, and black; it was soft and malleable, hard and gritty; it came from the mountains and the valleys; from infertile deserts and lush fertile plains and all the natural varieties in between. The descendants of Adam were destined to be as diverse as the handful of soil from which their ancestor was created; all have different appearances, attributes and qualities.

Iblis was a Jiin by birth and a devout Jinns who always obayed Allah commands. Iblis lived in heaven with the Angels and had a very High place in front of Allah. So during the creation of Adam when is body was formed, the body was left aside for a period of time without the sould breathed into it (soul). During that time Iblis was curious and wanted to know why Allah created this creature made of soil and for what purpose? His curiosity has grown into jealousy furthermore when he heard Allay says : “And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)

He become jealous that he lose his position as the favorite in front of Allah among his creation. So when Allah has created Adam honoured the first humman, Adam, in countless ways. Allah blew his soul into him, He fashioned him with His own hands and He ordered the Angels to bow down before him. And God said to the Angels:
"And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.’ So they prostrated themselves except ‘Iblis’ (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord" (Quran, Al-Kahf: 50).

Ibliss's arrogance – reinforced by his false logic, and jealousy – prevented him from obeying Allah’s command. As Allah tells us in the Quran, Satan said, "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay" (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 12).

Iblis was arrogant and proud, the following verse in the Quran are further proofs.

“….And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah)” (Quran, Al-Baqarah: 34).

Allah said: "O Iblees (Satan)! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?"
Iblees (Satan)said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud" (Quran, al-Hijr:32 – 33).


NB,Brotherly remindeder:Arrogance and pride is a dangerous attribute to have and we should always becareful as it might cost the paradise.

I hope the above answer your question and Allah know best than me and anybody.

Here are the references and some more source brother @turtle:
Al Imam ibn Katheer, The Stories of the Prophets.
Saheeh Al-Bukhari
Saheeh Muslim
Ibn Katheer.

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#15 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 21 novembre 2013 - 07:59

Voir le messageagentlo, le 21 November 2013 - 04:06 AM, dit :

@King I think you are mixing water and oil togethere. First nobody has blasphemed anybody, Deedat and Zakir Naik only asked simple questions and direct questions with simple logics.

Deedat rahimahu allah objective in debating was to come into one comment point with christianity and Judaism, as all 3 religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are monotheistic religions and have the same sources. But due to some factors some men has deviated these religions to their own agendas like the constant changes in the Bible and that what was Mr. Deedat conveying to christians that we are in the same team, point at hand he will always start in his debate " No single muslim is a muslim if he/she does not believe in the Messiah and all Messanger and Prophet of Allah".

Regarding Christians priest or theologicians debating the Quran, I think we both know that answer because the Quran was never re-written by some guys who as their own wish move/add/replace some verses[/b] and will never be. Proof at hand many scientific discoveries are supporting the verses in the Quran. Furthermore they don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad as the last Messanger, so who to blame for that if [b]they already discredit your beliefs without starting the debate



Salman Rushdie I never did read his book, but if he insulted the Quran and called Satanic Verses, then he commited blasphemy as did Ayan Hersi in Holland, that the Netherland government quick her out.

So let us no mix things and always subtantiate our saying with concrete proofs.

Salam

When a Muslim wants to debate about a holy book such as the Bible, he should not use his own holy book (the Quran) as a reference because by doing this, he wants to say from the beginning "I am right and the other is wrong!" He is not looking for the truth objectively. He wants to be a judge and a debater at the same time. You say Christians already discredit the Quran but you forget Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik are doing that same thing. They defame the Bible before any debate starts.
Deedat and Naik believe in an imaginary Torah and Injeel (Gospel. They just take verses from the Bible out of their context to support what they are trying to convey to Muslim audience.

Ce message a été modifié par king(1) - 21 novembre 2013 - 08:02 .

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