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Prophet Mohamed's Early Life. Was He Christian? Noter : -----

#1 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 11:43

Salam Djibs/Friends,

When I read Prophet Mohamed's biography(see Ben Hesham's Seera or Sheick M. Kheder's book KHOLASSATU NUR EL-YAQEEEN), I often ask myself this question; Was he A Christian by any chance? Some of you may wonder why would I say something like this.
these are my reasons:
First,in his childhood, he never whorshipped idles(false gods)though Mecka and the Holy Shrine was full of this.
Second, at the age of 12, he accompanied his uncle on a journey to Syria. There he met with a Monk called Baheera. Baheera said" this child will be a great spiritual leader!" it means the boy, Mohamed was not a pagan. He had something in commun with that Christian monk.
Third, the Prophet(peace be upon him) ordered his companions to go in exile in Ethiopia(or Axum's Kingdom).He added that their king(Negus) was a just man and nobody could be oppressed in his country.

Is there anyone who can explain this for me?

Peace.
Better future for our kids.
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#2 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Quarboche Dileh Icône

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Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 12:07

Voir le messageking(1), le 23 novembre 2009 - 11:43 , dit :

Salam Djibs/Friends,

When I read Prophet Mohamed's biography(see Ben Hesham's Seera or Sheick M. Kheder's book KHOLASSATU NUR EL-YAQEEEN), I often ask myself this question; Was he A Christian by any chance? Some of you may wonder why would I say something like this.
these are my reasons:
First,in his childhood, he never whorshipped idles(false gods)though Mecka and the Holy Shrine was full of this.
Second, at the age of 12, he accompanied his uncle on a journey to Syria. There he met with a Monk called Baheera. Baheera said" this child will be a great spiritual leader!" it means the boy, Mohamed was not a pagan. He had something in commun with that Christian monk.
Third, the Prophet(peace be upon him) ordered his companions to go in exile in Ethiopia(or Axum's Kingdom).He added that their king(Negus) was a just man and nobody could be oppressed in his country.

Is there anyone who can explain this for me?

Peace.

Hi King,

Le christianisme du prophete Issa Ibn Maryam (Jesus christ), est une religion qui a precede l'islam et qui a ete ordonne par notre Dieu Unique. Nous en tant que musulman, nous croyons en Allah, ses anges, ses prophetes, ses livres sacres et le jour de la ressurection. Nous croyons egalement au paradis et a l'enfer et en l'existance du bien et du mal. Ceci est un acte de foie que tout musulman doit observer afin de preserver sa foie.
Le prophete Mohamed, comme tout les prophetes qui l'ont preceder,(Nouh, Ibrahim, Youssouf, Zakariya, Issa, Yahya,Moussa,...etc), sont des etres choisis par Dieu, preserver de tout mal jusqu'a leur maturite avant d'etre envoyer precher la parole divine.
Pour repondre a ta question, le prophete Mohamed et le prophete Issa(ou Jesus) sont tout les deux des prophetes choisi par un seul dieu unique, donc rien d'etonnant a ce qu'ils aient les memes genres de comportement saint puisque ils sont cense etre des modeles pour le genre humain.

Je ne suis pas un savant ni un theologien, j'ai essaye de te repondre comme j'ai pu en tant que musulman.
Allah aalam.
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#3 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Dona del fuego Icône

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Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 01:47

Avt le christianisme de Issa et la loi de Mousse allehi salam, il y avait la loi d’Abraham qui était présente via Ismael à la Mecque, oublie pas que la Ka’ba a été irrigé par eux.

Malgré le polytheisme qui s’est infiltré plutard et les autres monotheismes, le message d’abraham a tjrs survécu mm parmi les polytheiste.
Ils avaient une fois inébranlable en ‘beyt u allah’,
1- ils n’ont jamais mit ce mot au pluriel
2- souviens toi quand Abraha voulait attaqué la ka'ba, ils savaient pour sure que Dieu défendrait sa maison (pour des polythéistes ils étaient pas mal)et c'est ce qui est arrivé ( Sourate al fil)
3- Les adeptes de ce monothéisme sans religion CAD avec une pratique de l’adoration très personnelle et non standardisée du temps du prophète s’appelaient des hanifes. Ils savaient que Dieu est Un et l’adorait à leur manière. C’était le cas de notre Bien Aimé et c’était pour cette raison qu’il était dans cette grotte au moment ou Dieu décida de s’adresser à lui .

Ce qui rejoint ce que disait Tilman Nagel dans la Neue Zürcher Zeitung :

« Les sacrifices d’animaux sont un élément indissociable de ces rites «abrahamiques» (…) que les Juifs et les Chrétiens ne connaissent pas. Pour Mahomet, ils vont de soi et, en les instituant, il s’approprie l’idéologie des Arabes monothéistes préislamiques (hanifes), lesquels aspiraient à une pratique rituelle (arabe: «din») tirant son authenticité d’Allah lui-même… »

Hope this enlight you a bit Quarboch,

Ce message a été modifié par Dona del fuego - 23 novembre 2009 - 01:50 .

L'avenir de l'homme, c'est la femme.

Louis Aragon.

Ce qui est le plus beau chez une Femme c'est sa dignité, et non seulement son corps. Mais il faut être digne pour pouvoir s'en rendre compte!

Unknown

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Huile que ne ride nul souffle, huile calme aux flancs de l'athlète, aux flancs des princes du Mali
Gazelle aux attaches célestes, les perles sont étoiles sur la nuit de ta
peau.

Senghor
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#4 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 10:07

Salam to you all

thanks Q.D
You know I am not trying to defame our Prophet(peace be upon him): I just want to know how he managed as a child or boy...etc to not be influenced by their traditional beliefs....this was a miracle? isn't it?

Dona,
I heard the story of Hanifs...but I don't think they were well organized; I mean they had no leaders, temples, books...ect to preach their creed or teach others not to believe in idles.
So can you, please, give me more information about them?
Better future for our kids.
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#5 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Dona del fuego Icône

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Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 07:39

Voir le messageking(1), le 23 November 2009 - 07:07 PM, dit :

Salam to you all

thanks Q.D
You know I am not trying to defame our Prophet(peace be upon him): I just want to know how he managed as a child or boy...etc to not be influenced by their traditional beliefs....this was a miracle? isn't it?

Dona,
I heard the story of Hanifs...but I don't think they were well organized; I mean they had no leaders, temples, books...ect to preach their creed or teach others not to believe in idles.
So can you, please, give me more information about them?


The Qur'an mentionned 12 times hanifs and name only one by name Ibrahim.
There are two diff. view on the subject, the one from muslim scholars and the one of non muslim.
For the non muslim the hanafiyya are seen as the followers of the religion of Abraham and differed with the Quraysh and having differed over the "association" of the Lord of the sacred precinct in Mecca

Some of the "devotional practices" of Islam attributed to them include the dawaaff around the Kaaba, the standing at Arafat and the sacrifice of camels.

But the majority of writting of that subjects define the hanifs as following:
- arab monotheism, belief in one god
- that oppose itself to several gods worship
- belonging to neither to Christianity nor Judaism
- with no clear faith defined that what i meant by monotheism sans religion, which indeed means no book, no temple, no preach.

Now it is not to be excluded that some practices might be kept as residue of previous practice as meditation which Muhammed SWS was apparently practicing very frequently.

This is only a reflexion coming from piece of lectures, i have no complete ref abt hanifs to ref you at but have a look on this.
RICHARD BELL, WHO WERE THE HANIFS? http://www.answering...Bell/hanifs.htm

salaam
L'avenir de l'homme, c'est la femme.

Louis Aragon.

Ce qui est le plus beau chez une Femme c'est sa dignité, et non seulement son corps. Mais il faut être digne pour pouvoir s'en rendre compte!

Unknown

Femme noire, femme obscure
Huile que ne ride nul souffle, huile calme aux flancs de l'athlète, aux flancs des princes du Mali
Gazelle aux attaches célestes, les perles sont étoiles sur la nuit de ta
peau.

Senghor
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#6 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   king(1) Icône

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Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 08:01

Voir le messageDona del fuego, le 25 November 2009 - 04:39 PM, dit :

The Qur'an mentionned 12 times hanifs and name only one by name Ibrahim.
There are two diff. view on the subject, the one from muslim scholars and the one of non muslim.
For the non muslim the hanafiyya are seen as the followers of the religion of Abraham and differed with the Quraysh and having differed over the "association" of the Lord of the sacred precinct in Mecca

Some of the "devotional practices" of Islam attributed to them include the dawaaff around the Kaaba, the standing at Arafat and the sacrifice of camels.

But the majority of writting of that subjects define the hanifs as following:
- arab monotheism, belief in one god
- that oppose itself to several gods worship
- belonging to neither to Christianity nor Judaism
- with no clear faith defined that what i meant by monotheism sans religion, which indeed means no book, no temple, no preach.

Now it is not to be excluded that some practices might be kept as residue of previous practice as meditation which Muhammed SWS was apparently practicing very frequently.

This is only a reflexion coming from piece of lectures, i have no complete ref abt hanifs to ref you at but have a look on this.
RICHARD BELL, WHO WERE THE HANIFS? http://www.answering...Bell/hanifs.htm

salaam

many thanks to you, Dona.

you know Muslims neglected this kind of information. i don't understand why but it seems this happened deliberately or with intention to bury any other history except theirs or their own version of the events- I means they did not mention the Hanifs and their faith as an independant and organized religion before Islam. All we know is tha they were the followers of Ibrahim and they practiced his RELIGION!

Prophet Muhammad's childhood and early life is so obscure. It is full od fictous details, legends and stories which don't give any references or sources to ordinary readers like me.
That is why we are obliged to look for more exact and precise information from non-Muslim sources as you have done in thecase of the Hanifs(because the word Hanif is almost synonym for "Muslim" in Muslims Scholars' interpretation of the holy Qur'an!)

We read in our Prophet's biography "He never learned how to read or write!"
it can't be true! bacause I don't believe it;
and because
a)Mecca was full of educated people(remember the story of prisoners of Badr. when Muslims defeated their enemy, ransom was due to be paid to set these Meccan prisoners free. Otherwise, every prisoner should teach 10 children how to read and write!)
B) when we go back to non-Muslim references, we find that He became acquainted with Jews and Christians in journeys to Syria(I already mentioned his meeting with the Monk Baheera).
c)it is absolutely superficial to say' A Great Leader as He is,he was illiterate.

I'd like to conclude that I believe our prophet(sws) had a complete knowledge of the Scriptures(the Bible) before he was sent by Allah.

Peace.
Better future for our kids.
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#7 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Dona del fuego Icône

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Posté 30 novembre 2009 - 01:01

Voir le messageking(1), le 26 November 2009 - 05:01 PM, dit :

many thanks to you, Dona.

you know Muslims neglected this kind of information. i don't understand why but it seems this happened deliberately or with intention to bury any other history except theirs or their own version of the events- I means they did not mention the Hanifs and their faith as an independant and organized religion before Islam. All we know is tha they were the followers of Ibrahim and they practiced his RELIGION!

Prophet Muhammad's childhood and early life is so obscure. It is full od fictous details, legends and stories which don't give any references or sources to ordinary readers like me.
That is why we are obliged to look for more exact and precise information from non-Muslim sources as you have done in thecase of the Hanifs(because the word Hanif is almost synonym for "Muslim" in Muslims Scholars' interpretation of the holy Qur'an!)

We read in our Prophet's biography "He never learned how to read or write!"
it can't be true! bacause I don't believe it;
and because
a)Mecca was full of educated people(remember the story of prisoners of Badr. when Muslims defeated their enemy, ransom was due to be paid to set these Meccan prisoners free. Otherwise, every prisoner should teach 10 children how to read and write!)
B) when we go back to non-Muslim references, we find that He became acquainted with Jews and Christians in journeys to Syria(I already mentioned his meeting with the Monk Baheera).
c)it is absolutely superficial to say' A Great Leader as He is,he was illiterate.

I'd like to conclude that I believe our prophet(sws) had a complete knowledge of the Scriptures(the Bible) before he was sent by Allah.

Peace.


Salut King

For me being illiterate does not mean having no knowledge.
Having a city full of educated people does not mean that everyone is educated. For counter example you have more than 100 000 illetrate people in Lorraine region (france) only today.

Hanif and muslim are indeed equivalent terms which have differed in the time line from pratice point of vieuw. These differences would have been interresting to know to study and its sad we do not have information about that.

But apart from that your argument is not new and is part of a theory saying that Mohamed was teach by followers of other religions and his religions is not the result of full revelation.

Which i do not agree for lack of stable argumentation.

Salaam

Ce message a été modifié par Dona del fuego - 30 novembre 2009 - 01:03 .

L'avenir de l'homme, c'est la femme.

Louis Aragon.

Ce qui est le plus beau chez une Femme c'est sa dignité, et non seulement son corps. Mais il faut être digne pour pouvoir s'en rendre compte!

Unknown

Femme noire, femme obscure
Huile que ne ride nul souffle, huile calme aux flancs de l'athlète, aux flancs des princes du Mali
Gazelle aux attaches célestes, les perles sont étoiles sur la nuit de ta
peau.

Senghor
0

#8 L'utilisateur est hors-ligne   Quarboche Dileh Icône

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Posté 01 décembre 2009 - 11:04

Voir le messageDona del fuego, le 23 novembre 2009 - 01:47 , dit :

Avt le christianisme de Issa et la loi de Mousse allehi salam, il y avait la loi d’Abraham qui était présente via Ismael à la Mecque, oublie pas que la Ka’ba a été irrigé par eux.

Malgré le polytheisme qui s’est infiltré plutard et les autres monotheismes, le message d’abraham a tjrs survécu mm parmi les polytheiste.
Ils avaient une fois inébranlable en ‘beyt u allah’,
1- ils n’ont jamais mit ce mot au pluriel
2- souviens toi quand Abraha voulait attaqué la ka'ba, ils savaient pour sure que Dieu défendrait sa maison (pour des polythéistes ils étaient pas mal)et c'est ce qui est arrivé ( Sourate al fil)
3- Les adeptes de ce monothéisme sans religion CAD avec une pratique de l’adoration très personnelle et non standardisée du temps du prophète s’appelaient des hanifes. Ils savaient que Dieu est Un et l’adorait à leur manière. C’était le cas de notre Bien Aimé et c’était pour cette raison qu’il était dans cette grotte au moment ou Dieu décida de s’adresser à lui .

Ce qui rejoint ce que disait Tilman Nagel dans la Neue Zürcher Zeitung :

« Les sacrifices d’animaux sont un élément indissociable de ces rites «abrahamiques» (…) que les Juifs et les Chrétiens ne connaissent pas. Pour Mahomet, ils vont de soi et, en les instituant, il s’approprie l’idéologie des Arabes monothéistes préislamiques (hanifes), lesquels aspiraient à une pratique rituelle (arabe: «din») tirant son authenticité d’Allah lui-même… »

Hope this enlight you a bit Quarboch,

Thanks Dona del Fuego de partager ce savoir Jazakallahou kayra.
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